Sorry Tiger, You’re Not Catching Jack Nicklaus’ Major Record

Discussion

16 comments for “Sorry Tiger, You’re Not Catching Jack Nicklaus’ Major Record”

  1. Matt SwensonApril 9, 2010, 12:49 pm

    Impressive. I especially like the graph for average finish; Tiger has never been better than Jack there. In most sports leagues, margin of victory predicts future results better than win %. If true in golf, Woods will finish behind Nicklaus, even if he’s slightly ahead when age-adjusted.

  2. GThomasApril 9, 2010, 1:28 pm

    This is the most silly thing I have ever seen. Tiger will easily surpass Jack’s record. He only has five to go to and in golf terms he is just hitting his prime years. Your analysis is flawed in that the field of competition is a lot larger now than it was in Jack’s time. That’s not to take anything away from Jack but as far as era’s go you are comparing apples to oranges. Just remember your mea culpa post in three years when he surpasses the record.

    • Sam OrmeApril 9, 2010, 2:56 pm

      All good points, GThomas. I worry that you missed my central argument, though: as good as Tiger has been (and he’s been nothing short of incredible), he’s trying to come back from a major, major knee injury. ACL tears aren’t the sort of thing that people just bounce back from, even ridiculously fit people like in the NBA and NFL. If Tiger can round back into form and win those next five majors, trust me, I’ll be the first in line to congratulate him and eat my words.

      • Dick MaheuApril 10, 2010, 12:32 pm

        Sam, I totally agree with you that Tiger Woods will never win another Major tournament but for different reasons. Watch him when he plays the Majors. He doesn’t enjoy the game and completely stresses out over bad shots. This is a “game” folks and we don’t always get the shot or result we want! Add to that, many other good golfers breathing down his back continuously and not always the same ones so the stress level is not there for the others. He is “expected” to win, they are not! Another reason, his lack of decent morals and his following of a Cult religion. Add these things up and it spells the demise of a great golfer. Nicklaus smiled and played the game for what it was, a “GAME”!

  3. scottApril 9, 2010, 2:45 pm

    Sam, either you’re a hater or just plain in denial about how good this guy really is. When you’re dealing with this level of greatness, it makes it even more difficult to predict what the future holds for a guy of this caliber. And you’ve completely left out one huge element; Nicklaus had far less competition than Woods – far less. You’ll have a tough time finding people to argue that point. Does this put any more holes in your theory or make your graphs appear less accurate? Perhaps not. But what Woods has done in just the last couple of days makes me a believer that he can do anything when it comes to the game of golf. Furthermore, it reinforces my belief that when it’s time for him to join the Senior Tour, he’ll not only have won more majors than Nicklaus, but also been anointed as the greatest golfer to have ever played the game. Jack won his last major at 46. Tiger will be better then most golfers half his age when he reaches that mark. The knee is a concern, no doubt. But as we get on in our years, medical science only improves. Good article though. It will certainly invite some debate; I mean I sure fell for it.

    Scott / So. California

    • Sam OrmeApril 9, 2010, 5:05 pm

      Great points, Scott. I can’t argue that Tiger had tougher competition than Nicklaus did, and he’s certainly impressed so far. I’m just saying that he’s not going to be 2000 Tiger again. He’s not going to be the prohibitive favorite in every event he enters like he used to be.

      Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe he’s as superhuman as he thought and he has no trouble recovering from that knee surgery. If that’s the case, I’m happy to eat my words. But I think it’s more likely that he doesn’t cruise to the record quite like we thought he would.

    • BrianApril 29, 2010, 4:45 pm

      Nicklaus had greater competition not less and it isn’t difficult at all to find people who agree. Most tournaments come down to 5 or 6 people still in contention with 9 holes to play. That is no different now than it was 40 and 50 years ago. So with 9 holes to play many of Woods’ competitors have been players with zero major victories and little expectation of being in contention again. In the very least, most of them know they won’t compete again consistently. When Nicklaus’ field was widdled down to 5 or 6 remaining competitors they often included multiple major winners who expected to have another chance to win again very soon. That makes them more confident and the pressure is diminished because they believe they will get another to win. In Woods’ era, many of them correctly believe it is their one and only chance.

      • BrianApril 29, 2010, 4:52 pm

        In addition, Nicklaus never had fans throw his ball back into play as has happened with Woods’ fans at critical times in two separate PGA championships and several other tournaments. One is permitted 5 minutes to look for a golfball. At the WGC in Firestone a few years ago they basically halted the tournament for better than 20 minutes because Woods hit his ball on the roof of the clubhouse and they couldn’t find it. Too damn bad. It doesn’t matter where the ball goes or why you can’t find it, 5 minutes is the allotted time. Golf has a lot of stupid rules but that isn’t one of them. And to permit somebody to withdraw a Woods gofball from his pocket and claim to have picked it up from the roof is ludicrous. The Met Life blimp had a camera on the roof the entire time, why didn’t they show us the man on the roof? Woods is a great golfer, one of the best to be sure but he’s a terrible sportsman. He knows better than to allow such favouritism.

  4. biffrodApril 9, 2010, 5:12 pm

    I can tear apart your argument – you failed on your crucial points.
    Tiger’s athleticism matches or exceeds that of your average NBA or NFL player.
    Tiger has already rebuilt his game from the ground up two or three times in his career, so the ACL should not stop him.
    Your charts seem to make a case that he will catch up or pass Nicklaus.
    Only question for me is will he be able to do what Nicklaus said a long time ago: pass the combined total of Nicklaus and Palmer?
    He’s done well in the first two rounds of the Masters coming back after five months off, under all the scumbag media scrutiny in the world over his personal life scandal.

    • IriaApril 10, 2010, 7:52 am

      Why is it scumbag media? If anyone is a scumbag it’s Tiger. I don’t disavow his athletic greatness, but that doesn’t excuse his affairs. Or are you one of those who thinks that celebrity, whether TV, movie, or sports, means a free pass?

    • AnonymousApril 11, 2010, 3:50 pm

      If you look at Nicklaus’s total record in the majors (e.g. 19 second place finishes), it isn’t worth making a comparison!

      • Dick MaheuApril 16, 2010, 2:30 pm

        My exact sentiments! 37 1st or 2nd place finishes in the majors. No way Tiger Woods ever comes close to Nicklaus’s records. I personally think Nicklaus had just as tough a competition as Woods has had. It simply shows you how great Jack was. Woods will never make it! Ruth’s record would have never been compromised without steroids and a 162 game schedule. No one will ever come close to Dimaggio’s 56 consecutive game hitting streak. Notice also that Woods plays in the “Majors” but very few of the other tournaments. He’s strictly a “trophy” hunter. He constantly snubs his fans. Add to that the personality of a wet mop and any comparison of him and Nicklaus is a bad joke!

  5. KeyshotMay 1, 2010, 8:40 pm

    The only record Tiger will surpass Jack N. – how many differnt blonde holes Tiger dipped his putter into ! LOL !

    Jack is the Man, Tiger will never be.

  6. BrianRMay 7, 2010, 11:40 am

    Personally, I think Jack’s competition was way, way better than Tigers. Lee Trevino, Miller, Weiskopf, Tom Watson, Gary Player, Palmer, Casper, Floyd – all multiple majors winners and all Hall of Fame players. Tiger’s epic battles came against people like Bob May, Rocco Mediate & Chris DeMarco – all fine players, but not Trevino’s, etc. Mickelson is really the only player of this time to compare with the others named, and he has a talent for throwing away more majors than he’s won…

    Another thing that has changed is equipment – mainly the ball. In 1965, when Jack shot 63 at Augusta, he reached #15 with driver / sand wedge. Then, the driver head was persimmon and shaft was steel – and the ball was balata. Put today’s golf balls on titanium clubs and scientifically tuned graphite shafts…

    Tiger has the superior short game. He pitches and chips at a level Jack could not dream about. Jack, however is the better driver, iron player and strategist. I’d say they putt equally – with Jack deadly on the 5-10 footers that usually mean championships, and Tiger holing more long range putts than anyone in golf history. Greens are typically faster now – (leave out 1974 Winged Foot and 1973 Oakmont), so Tiger’s accomplishments with the flat stick are incredible.

    There is one guy we leave out of this discussion and that is Bob Jones. He never turned pro, but you could say that for a 7-10 year period, his advantage over his competitors was larger than either Jack’s or Tigers.

  7. BillMay 23, 2010, 4:05 pm

    Yes don’t forget Jones he was just as good as either.

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